tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post5656642663589562417..comments2024-03-23T21:00:09.726-05:00Comments on Vanishing STL: No need to replace what isn’t broken: Kiener Plaza and Morton D. May AmphitheaterVanishing STLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08798287914185180625noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-76529997507941837932009-10-19T11:21:45.355-05:002009-10-19T11:21:45.355-05:00LED video arrays would simply become huge visually...LED video arrays would simply become huge visually assaulting Bud Light billboards.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11447775469887528372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-69298997951308955482009-10-01T10:40:43.751-05:002009-10-01T10:40:43.751-05:00I agree... DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN!!!!...I agree... DON'T FIX WHAT ISN'T BROKEN!!!!!!<br /><br />The City Garden was a great addition to the city, no doubt. Keiner reno is not necessary. Having worked downtown for several years, it's the center of downtown dialy activity and people love it the WAY IT IS.Carrie Nenonenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00183693483027784212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-6843300161023684482009-09-21T07:59:12.453-05:002009-09-21T07:59:12.453-05:00OMG!!! Every time I check out this blog I am struc...OMG!!! Every time I check out this blog I am struck by yet another act of unnecessary civic destruction by the city fathers of St Louis!! I can say with credentials that the old plaza does lack certain quality of materials that could easily be upgraded and some elements need redesigning BUT it is a known fact that people would find this upgrade far more satisfying, interesting and fulfilling as far as civic pride goes than the gutting and replacement of the whole damn thing!! Not to mention that the new design seriously SUCKS. Your city is in some serious trouble are you sure SL hasn't fallen into some time warp and its the 1950s all over again..... NEW NEW NEW ASYMMETRY RULES IF ITS OLD TEAR DOWN WE WANT A CLEAN MODERN METROPOLIS!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-2907315758462512412009-09-19T11:48:41.501-05:002009-09-19T11:48:41.501-05:00Ok, those LED mesh video arrays are way too cool. ...Ok, those LED mesh video arrays are way too cool. Oh man.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11151337701934733837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-42287293413689885132009-09-17T10:31:06.876-05:002009-09-17T10:31:06.876-05:00Clarification- remove the trusses above the public...Clarification- remove the trusses above the public speaking platform atop the water feature and to the east of the amphitheater. The simply trabeated 'enclosure' of bandstand in the amphitheater is harmonious with the terraced seating canopy. I hate those trusses.john w.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05557520346796432866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-38986731878777528872009-09-17T10:20:28.580-05:002009-09-17T10:20:28.580-05:00Removing the horribly cheesy trusses above the ban...Removing the horribly cheesy trusses above the bandstand would be start.john w.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05557520346796432866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-52158173007168959332009-09-17T10:01:01.537-05:002009-09-17T10:01:01.537-05:00Great post - really got me thinking about this spa...Great post - really got me thinking about this space.<br /><br />I've never been a fan of Kiener Plaza, and (lacking any formal architecture/design/urban planning training) it's been hard for me to articulate exactly why. I actually like many aspects of the HOK plan, although I kind of wonder why the firm that designed City Garden isn't involved in any redesign of Kiener.<br /><br />I don't like the formality of the eastern portion of the plaza. It's not inviting, and the narrow walkways don't draw pedestrians in.<br /><br />The benches are of a weird, uncomfortable design. Maybe I have a weird body, but I don't "fit" the benches' contour. Just putting in new benches would be a huge improvement. It would be great to have more seating options beyond the awful benches and the terraces of the amphitheater.<br /><br />I'd also like to see more diversity in the way of trees and other plantings. I like your idea of topiaries.<br /><br />The idea of covering the garages with LED mesh is a fantastic one that I think should be pursued before anything else is done to Kiener Plaza.<br /><br />The design of the ampitheater seems very tired to me - it definitely has a dated 80s feel to it. I would be interested to see how it could be refreshed and updated instead of just being completely replaced.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00654629805975076136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-81302179461878053292009-09-17T09:09:57.190-05:002009-09-17T09:09:57.190-05:00The few aspects that are reflective of the formali...The few aspects that are reflective of the formality of the Old Court House in the existing design are the strict axiality, the classical language of PoMo, and the semi-circular canopied seating terraces (that I suppose could somehow reflective of the courthouse dome) don't ascribe any more value to its existence in comparison to the new design. Beside that, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the intent to redesign this open space. As with City Garden, it is much easier to appear as if progress is taking place when existing open spaces remain open, but with some expensive cosmetic changes. This is NO need to redesign Keiner Plaza, as ther was no need to construct City Garden (despite how well-designed and pleasant the garden happens to be). There are NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE downtown to support so many deliberately designed open spaces, and the City Garden site should have been built out with new real estate when the economy would permit. It is now too late for that. <br /><br />The only thing that the existing Keiner Plaza really needs (beside the updating of the existing little building enclosures flanking the amphitheater) is the filling of the two grassy areas surrounding the fountain with mature trees. Leave the central axis open for visual connection through the dome and to the Arch, but allow the rest to become a small 'forested' urban park that is ordered appropriate to its formality. The mesh screens masking the garages is a great idea, and one I've suggested before, and it would be very appropriate for this site. The point being made by your post should be accompanied by a graphic representation of the ideas herein. We, as urbanists, are saying here's "WHAT'S THERE", and then saying here's "WHAT SHOULD BE".john w.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05557520346796432866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-24474036578798415402009-09-17T08:55:37.989-05:002009-09-17T08:55:37.989-05:00It's all part of that disposable/replaceable m...It's all part of that disposable/replaceable mentality that the US is infamous for. From food containers to cars and furniture we habitually throw something out when it starts to show wear and replace it with newer shiny versions. City planners should be smarter than that.imalumahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11613675280979379101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-54155992126480588902009-09-17T08:41:55.461-05:002009-09-17T08:41:55.461-05:00Vouge?Vouge?john w.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05557520346796432866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-86923899911642966182009-09-17T08:15:43.534-05:002009-09-17T08:15:43.534-05:00I think there are many more pressing issues than r...I think there are many more pressing issues than re-designing this area. Some moderate repairs are all that is needed...A.A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08562217534227190369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7006035116970579216.post-25820594253229613722009-09-17T08:00:58.779-05:002009-09-17T08:00:58.779-05:00They just want to build CityGarden II.They just want to build CityGarden II.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08064334959354090683noreply@blogger.com